I respectfully disagree with a number of points here. Fundamentally, I think the author lacks a real definition for what "western" is supposed to be. It is easy to attack an undefined concept. Here, the author seems to imply that western excludes the Muslim world. The author also seems to believe that "western" civilization must be stagnant, and the fact people today may have different values or beliefs than those 300 or 1300 years ago means that no continuum exists. Western, in my mind as a former classicist, means Hellenized. That is why the Greeks are presented as the origin of western civilization. They are the origin of Hellenic civilization. Read through that prism, there is clearly a continuum from the Hellenization of the Mediterranean to the development of Christianity as a marriage between Judaism and Hellenic philosophy to also the development of Islam out of Christian heterodoxy in Syria and Arabia. The spread of Christianity and Islam are ultimately the spread of cultures with Hellenic origins. (I think the tendency among scholars to ignore the Christian origins of Islam plays into this false notion that the Muslim world has origins different from the "west." In reality, Muslim culture is a sibling of the European cultures that arose from orthodox Christian communities. The spread of Islam is in many ways the final victory of the Hellenic west over native middle eastern cultures.) The fact values may change in no way implies that the "west" is not the heir of Greek culture, no more than differences between a child and a parent in no way negate the fact of parentage. 26 3 Reply − Avatar think Derek a year ago Yours is a perfect response to this article 5 3 Reply − W William Derek a year ago If your concept of "the West" includes the Muslim world, then what does it not include? The purveyors of this myth do not share your definition. Your critique of this essay misses the point that the concept of "Western Civilization" is deployed by people trying to leave out Muslims, Africans, the (very influenced by Greek culture) Middle East and India, et al. My university's recently dissolved Institute for Western Civilization limited their concept to white, western European, Christian cultures. Perhaps the author did not dwell enough on the pernicious side of this myth and it's use in bolstering white supremacy and cultural chauvinism, but her analysis is excellent. 6 6 Reply − Avatar leonardwaks Derek a year ago THis article makes an import ant point that can be augmented by considering the role of education - yes, school education - in the spread and definition of "civilization." The Hellenists were great synthesizers. The Hellenistic grammar school master had a canon of the "ten" - the ten philosophers, poets, statesmen, dramatists, etc. What we think of today as Greco- Roman culture is an expansion of this early curriculum - and its instructional practice in the liberal arts - by Rome. 1 0 Reply − T tiredinflorida a year ago While I agree that Western Civilization is much more diverse than our standard textbooks depict, citing the Sudanese merchants trading using the Greek language does not negate the threads of Western Civilization that clearly run through Greece into Europe. Saying that the Founding fathers invented Western Civilization to justify slavery is like saying man invented war to justify the spear. Slavery has been and still is a part of the human condition for as long as war has been and still is a part of the human condition. It's childish to impose your moral system on all of history. 17 2 Reply − Avatar Ooogapi tiredinflorida a year ago "citing the Sudanese merchants trading using the Greek language does not negate the threads of Western Civilization—" No one is saying it does. What the author (and others) are saying is that it is foolish to confine western civilization to a particular subcontinent and "race"—that is, the white race—and proclaim their history as isolated and elevated. The latter conceptions were created out of hubris and a need for reconciliation of said hubris. "...threads of Western Civilization that clearly run through Greece into Europe." I wouldn't say clearly. Again, what the article alludes to. The Greeks were much more an Asiatic people's then they were "European", and then predominance of their knowledge and influence reveals itself south and eastward. Then Romans were a Mediterranean peoples who too were culturally focused south and eastward. What the author is saying is that Western Civilization was a myth created, so your "thread" is really manufactured inferences. The West needs Greece and Rome in order to prove they aren't just Vandals. "Founding fathers invented Western Civilization to justify slavery is like saying man invented war to justify the spear." No it's not. It's like saying a particular man invented his own complex of superiority in order to justify killing other men with said spear. Sure, war has been a part of our story as a species since the beginning, but "Civilization" hasn't—the "West" hasn't—"Race" hasn't—etc. Western Civilization was ipso facto its own moral gymnastics. "It's childish to impose your moral system on all of history." But it's unfortunate to argue in bad faith. The point is the idea of Western Civilization is a modern invention which revalued values (to use Nietzsche) in order to escape their own hypocrisy, but as we are seeing, in doing such, it became an idea who needed to claim Greece and Rome as theirs so as to appear to have a past justifying their abhorrent mannerisms—racialized chattel slavery, scientific racism, modern colonialism and imperialism, indigenous land appropriation, etc.—which on their own are bad enough, but when it's done by people who espoused liberty, equality of man, freedom, and democracy... Rome and Greece is the West's buffer against their own barbarism, but as I mentioned, Western History really starts with the Vandals. In no shortage of irony, Westerners have as much right to claim Greece and Rome as theirs as the Arabs do Kemet. 2 1 Reply − Avatar Joseph tiredinflorida 9 months ago Yes, slavery has been, and still is, a part of the human condition for as long as war has been. It is also undeniable that myths as well as social constructs have been used to justify slavery and colonialism. 0 0 Reply − W Wendell Hull a year ago Actually, the complete dominance of Western Civilization is not a myth. History is not a myth or a common idea that can be changed. Western Civilization is a fact. The West is not a religion or an idea. Also, Greece and Rome were, in fact, more than just predominatly European according to all genetic research. Do you still study? Or is it that you have made up your mind without knowing the DNA research. 20 4 Reply − D Drgn Wendell Hull a year ago I have to say though that I agree with her point of it being a modern perspective. There were a vast amount of cultures and ethnicities in western europe. Its akin to saying "asian culture" when there's are so many different cultures and ethnicities in Asia. I do think that the "New World" and the Enlightenment are where we get out modern idea of "Western Culture" not the ancient world. 2 0 Reply − AC ahmed cameron Wendell Hull a year ago Its telling a story without stating all the details. The details would give credit to other nations and groups of ppl not just greeks. The Greeks did not invent anything they did not comeup eureka withany new ideas. what infact they were was great at recording ideas from that era. but most scholars at the time went to school in africa and modern day iran and china so we cant get a good understanding of history becuase so much is left out. Theres two stories not just your story. I grew up thinking they were so great i thought they created everything only to do research after college to find out they didnt create nothing. Pythagoras got all his knowlege from egypt and iran persia. So how is he the father of the triangle when the pyramids out date him for example. youcan also find other philosphers who were here before greece was found who have writings that sounded like plato. so yes i agree greece is a myth. 0 0 Reply − Avatar montebdm Wendell Hull a year ago History is always written by winners. "The West is not a religion or an idea." I agree. But the West is also (collectively) an empire (empires) that dominated the world over 200 to 300 years. It shaped the histories as written in those years, as well as many other disciplines and pursuits of knowledge. Greece and Rome were no doubt important. But the history and contribution of non-Christian empires and societies to the knowledge, culture and technology of the world can only be dismissed with great loss to the understanding of our world. Good thing that the era of western domination of the world's economic, political and cultural (and propagandistic narratives) is about to morph into a more complete one. 0 2 Reply − Avatar Tetiana Hranchak a year ago It is surprising that the author did not conclude with Putin's thesis about a multipolar world. It would seem logical. The text is manipulative, with faulty logic and replacing facts with judgments. Will the author as a historian deny such achievements of Western civilization as the Roman legal system or democracy, republic, separation of powers, humanism, etc.? Western civilization is about values that society primarily follows. General vector. Many things came from the East, but it was Western civilization that turned good ideas into social practices. So, we should not cut down the branch that supports us, we must value and protect what we have. 14 2 Reply − V Vidya dara Tetiana Hranchak a year ago You think east kept their ideas as just ideas and didnt use it? Stop with this shameless lies of crediting everything to western civilization. World would have progressed even without the so called western civilization. 3 4 Reply − Avatar leonardwaks Vidya dara a year ago I do not quite know what you mean by "progressed." The great civilizations of India and China are worthy of our highest admiration. Any general education today in the West and everywhere else must include these and acknowledge their achievements. That said, from the 18th century onward these civilizations recognized that Western science would subdue them unless they adapted by taking on some of the technologies - and the scientific-technological culture that generated them. One might say that this is the main theme of Chinese thought from the 18th century through the May 4th movement and beyond until Mao. Today no responsible general education can neglect these cultures. Teaching "Western" civilization in isolation is very problematic. But to deny the continuities from the Hellenistic age gthrough the 19th century is mere ignorance. 2 1 Reply − B bathsprings Tetiana Hranchak a year ago Humanism? 0 1 Reply − Avatar Work4peace Tetiana Hranchak a year ago Will the author as a historian deny such achievements of Western civilization as the Roman legal system or democracy, republic, separation of powers, humanism, etc.? The Romans were not the founders of law or government or humanism. But you can credit them for providing the genesis for western narcissism, sociopathic, psychopathic, pathologic and parasitic cultural behavior. Thousands of years before the barbaric savages - Greeks and Romans - it was the ancient African Egyptians who had the first governmental system comprised of nomes (states). First system of law called Maat - truth, justice, order and balance. The invaders - Greeks and Romans - stole everything from the ancient Egyptians by plagiarizing their systems: education, government, astrology, spirituality and building. The Western world is a very bad copy of the original ancient African Egyptians who didn't have a standing army, poverty or religion to control the people. These ancient black Africans ruled the world through righteousness which the Europeans and Asians have proven to be incapable of. 0 2 Reply − W Wendell Hull a year ago In another point, the Caliphate does not have any thread to our modern times. The Enlightenment is also called the Western Tradition for a reason. 14 2 Reply − Avatar leonardwaks Wendell Hull a year ago This is profoundly ignorant. Were it not for the great copy houses of Baghdad we would not even have our hallowed "civilization." That said, while these copy houses did copy and translate many Asian texts as well as Greek and Roman ones, we know which ones were the Greco-Roman ones from which the curriculum of the grammar master after 800 derived. 3 1 Reply − P Pete Starkey a year ago Spoken like a true Marxist. 25 6 Reply − Avatar strongfp a year ago edited "the first time through its armies, the second through its religion, the third through its laws"... Rome had control over a lot of what collectively built the western world, it's architecture and religious culture inspired Gothic architecture and culture, which inspired pretty much every European nation. The American founding fathers basically copied Roman law, to the point even idolozing the symbol of the fasces - as seen in congress behind the house speaker, and under Lincolns hands - Latin derived from two major European dialects, one of them being Greek. We are arguably still living in the distant rubble of the Roman empire, who set the foundation for western civilization. 10 1 Reply − T Travis a year ago This stuff is getting old 13 2 Reply − Avatar This comment was marked as spam. − − N Nicole Emmet Sweeney a year ago Not either/or. It's both/and. We can acknowledge the Greeks AS WELL AS the Arabs in our history. 10 2 Reply − Avatar Anzuminm Nicole a year ago edited And the Celts, and the Germans, and the Slavs... 6 0 Reply − Avatar Lance Robert Hough Nicole a year ago Nice!!! 1 0 Reply − Avatar BishopGotDaGlow Emmet Sweeney a year ago And what research have you done to say otherwise? 4 4 Reply − Avatar Lance Robert Hough Emmet Sweeney a year ago Spot on! 0 3 Reply − B Bret Walrath a year ago How to get published today - disavow the values, achievements and culture that gave you the freedoms you now take for granted. 21 6 Reply − Avatar Nicholas James Bret Walrath a year ago Yes, so true of liberal academics who bask in the reflected admiration of their colleagues, to achieve funding. What a sick bunch of naive fools who know so little about the real world out there, closeted in their air conditioned offices behind their academic computers. I say this as a fully qualified scientific academic professional who has seen so many of these charlatans at work. 2 2 Reply − S Scot Arris a year ago On the surface this article appears to be a well thought out idea peeling back the layers of the western tradition. But then about two thirds down in the article its true colors are revealed. Painting the idea of the "west" as racist ideology propaganda. Why is there so much hatred for western civilization? 11 2 Reply − K Keng Scot Arris a year ago Western civilization is based on slavery , colonization and Roman law . Imperialism came to this continent to conquer , enslave and annex from Europe !!! The cultures that were here before , so called western civilization were silenced , overwritten , and just obfuscated from WORLD history !!! 2 0 Reply − L Luci a year ago I agree that the west is not the same as the classical civilization, impossible to have the same cultural baggage as them even if their more famous authors are still on the cultural memory. outside of that though all this article tells me is that western civilization shares a lot more with islamic civilization than it does with, say east asian civilization. Not surprising given the distances. 5 0 Reply − Avatar leonardwaks Luci a year ago Islamic culture is, as the author notes, profoundly "Hebrew-Christian" and "Greco Roman." In my university the Koran was taught alongside the Hebrew and Christian scriptures in the Western Civ course. As a pretty ignorant professor called upon to teach this course, this was indeed an awakening. 2 0 Reply − Avatar This comment was marked as spam. − − L Leo Cullen Shawn Carter a year ago Exhausted? You poor dear. You better have a lie-down. 5 11 Reply − Avatar Goblin Shark Leo Cullen a year ago Are you suggesting a nice intellectual nap, like you have had your entire adult life? 4 2 Reply − Avatar Audrey Roberts Shawn Carter a year ago Fully agree! 0 1 Reply − S Scott Mcleod a year ago This type of nonsense by woke academic s is totally abhorrent. 11 3 Reply − Avatar Cfik101 a year ago Great. Let's continue to undercut the achievements Greeks (my people) have made. I also forgot about the article saying Achilles and Patroclus may have been black. Also Cleopatra being black and not Greek. But yeah, continue to say whatever you must to make others feel better. 8 2 Reply − Avatar Nicholas James Cfik101 a year ago Well said, Sir! 2 1 Reply − Avatar This comment was marked as spam. − − Avatar Shawn Brittany Hayes a year ago Typical American reaction to anything you even marginally disagree with. Love it leave it mentality, cancel anything and anyone you don't like. It's why your country has become one of the modern world's greatest shit shows. 7 4 Reply − Avatar Reda Rouabhia Brittany Hayes a year ago edited I agree , if you leave first the country and give it back to the rightful owners 3 2 Reply − Avatar bill bill a year ago Lol, it's still the west, not Africa and not Asia and not Indochina.... 6 2 Reply − T T-Daddyo a year ago Arguments not extant enough to be effectively persuasive. You find some flaws, and proceed to throw the baby out w the bathwater. The American Revolution was, and is, a successful work in progress. As the flower of consciousness unfolds, it finds it's thorns, and adjusts. 4 1 Reply − Avatar This comment was marked as spam. − − 1 135 Hunnitz Brittany Hayes a year ago I say fck this system and it’s government. It doesn’t care about “we the people “. And we the people are fed up. Ain’t no truth in freedom justice and liberty for all or whatever that elementary poem said. The truth is we exist in a society that has no humanity beyond the bounds of some individuals. Religion race and politics are all based on obedience control and the desire to divide and conquer. If u don’t see that. You’re just another incompetent lost soul. There’s more to it than can be said though. 2 2 Reply − W William Brittany Hayes a year ago Brittany Hayes, I was going to write a long, thoughtful response to your repeated nationalistic screeds in response to this essay, but that won't get through to you, so I'll just point out the idiocy of telling a Scottish woman who teaches in Vienna to "please leave America." I guess public forums like this are bound to be filled with the dumbest voices. That's just the way of the world now. But I wish that you would lose your wifi password. 1 1 Reply − Avatar Goblin Shark a year ago What a load of liberal tripe. 6 3 Reply − A ADI a year ago edited We really need to tear down anything Western, don't we? I admire the fight against this all-white-all-perfect-continuous-since-the-Greek fictional narrative, though. Literally nobody thinks that (well, maybe some, but nobody informed) -yet somehow this is what defines this evil, racist West. (It is called a straw man, by the way. Or, perhaps, straw person, to be politically correct.) As for the whole idea: the author is hopelessly America-centered. I have some good news for her: Europe still exist. There are a few countries there which are part of the "Western culture" (really: European culture), and the author seems to have forgotten about those. (I know, easy thing to do -maps are difficult to find nowadays.) "Western culture" was not invented by your founding fathers, and it had nothing to do with slavery. Just thinking this shows an incredible amount of hubris -and ignorance. 2 0 Reply − Avatar auggieX a year ago The 1619 project on a global scale. Rewriting history, removing context, adding context where there is nothing to add. I guess if leftists can't destroy Western Culture fast enough, they can take the PC SJW and drag them to redefining it and its culture and values. 5 3 Reply − J Jeaux Meaux a year ago White supremcy, opression and imperialism. if only there where no whites humanity would live in peace and harmony, one with nature. its as if only whites had empires and slavery. What narcisitic, western focused navel gazing. No other empires in history, no conquest, no slaves? 3 1 Reply − W Warren Sellers a year ago I wouldn't say western civilization is founded on white supremacy. It was more like whites looked around the world (somewhere between 1600 and 1800) and said, "We're the lords of all we survey, we must be the Ubermensch! This is going to be fun!" After all the true "Golden Rule", the one practiced throughout Western history is, "He who has the gold, makes the rules." Do I sound "woke"? No I'm a black, Bible believing, young earth creationist that voted for Mr. Trump TWO TIMES. 🤣🤢🥹. Oh well! Roe V Wade has been struck down ,at least. I ask that my fellow Americans will pardon my rant. God bless but if He chooses not to do so, may he grant us mercy instead. 3 1 Reply − R Raz Raza a year ago Has the author even heard about Nalanda University of India? I guess not. Nalanda University, the first residential university in the history of mankind, stood for like a thousand years, before being burnt down by Jihadi invader Bakhtiar Khilji in 13th century. Jihadi invaders of India, copied the Vedic manuscripts of India, and brought them to Baghdad and from there, these Vedic manuscripts, were translated and brought to Europe. The author can Google the authenticity of these statements. How West and Islamic invaders are trying to twist the history of India to suit their ideological agenda is beyond human comprehension Also, British stole 45 Trillion dollars and starved millions to death in India. We MUST learn frome history. An American 7 7 Reply − Avatar Tetiana Hranchak Raz Raza a year ago It is worth distinguishing individual scientific discoveries and cultural achievements from civilization as a complex of communities, ideas, practices and achievements. Everyone knows that gunpowder was invented in China, numbers in India, and Christianity originated in Palestine, but it was in the West that society created a unique mix of these. The West gave an understanding of citizenship and democracy, humanism and freedom. It is natural that at first for yourself, but the further - the more for others. Eventually, decolonization took place and mistakes were acknowledged. But this is no reason to deny gains. 6 0 Reply − V Vidya dara Tetiana Hranchak a year ago Yet, same logic is not applied for the so called western civilization? only numbers? the whole mathematics up to calculus comes from India. You think India which had trade with china for thousands of years didn't use gunpowder? What benefit christianity was to the world? it is not even superior to Indian Buddhism originated long before christianity. Indian civilization gave the idea of non violence and humanity to west not the other way, west was following slavery till 20th century. No mistake on India was acknowledged infact it was justified and western countries are butthurt to this day that a indian is ruling india. The gain was only for the so called western countries not for others. As your EU foreign policy chief says it proudly ‘Europe is garden, rest of the world is jungle’ 1 3 Reply − N Nicole Raz Raza a year ago I don't think it's fair to expect her to cover the entirety of human history in one article. She's merely, and successfully, showing that "Western" history/culture isn't perhaps so western after all. 8 9 Reply − Avatar Goblin Shark Nicole a year ago You have an interesting conception of the word "successfully". 2 2 Reply − S Scott Arrington Raz Raza a year ago It was good until you said "google" and "authenticity" in the same sentence. 0 0 Reply − G Gregory Purvis a year ago edited These articles are just meant to stir up our anger. They know it's wrong and there trying to gage what we will say and do. How upset we'll get. This article is not intended to enlighten or help anything. It's a scam. A trap. They think racism can sell cars and cell phones. And they've decided normal people with different than left wing ideas are racist. YOU AND I ARE RACIST. It's a pathetic, soulless, disgusting way to make money. People on the left are as good and well intended as us on the right. They've been co-opted by the same forces that have co-opted the right. When we interact with each other in the real world were the same American friends we've always bean. "We've got to let love rule" -Lenny CravitZ 5 4 Reply − Avatar Maars! a year ago What professors may come...??? She'd have never have existed had it been the Arabs, her ancestors would have been sold or stoned to death a long time ago Let's not fantasize such things.. Actual human history of liberty, law, human rights is just a few decades old Humanity, truly, is in its infancy Let's acknowledge the fact and appreciate the greatness of our 20th century ancestors 2 1 Reply − Avatar CurtCarpenter a year ago I blame Herodotus. 1 0 Reply − L Larry a year ago Who cares what inspired the West? We need to change everything regardless of where it all started. Starting with Basic Living Wage for all people not in the predatory 1%. Then we can believe and be free. 1 0 Reply − V Valerie Van Kerckhove a year ago Modern civilization is actually built on the accomplishments of the entire planet. The Arabs gathered knowledge from the Ancient Greeks and Romans as well as Ancient India to form the base of the scientific method, which then took off in Europe during the Renaissance. China contributed gunpowder, the compass etc. The Americas provided much of the superfoods (corn, potatoes, beans as well as tomatoes, avocado, chili, peanuts, cocoa and vanilla) that helped sustain large populations and led to a much richer global cuisine. Those of African origin contributed so much to dance and music that we forget who we owe so many genres to. Even in modern times, the entire world is contributing, for example Middle East providing energy to the world, China serving as the world's factory, India serving as the world's service sector, Europe pushing global standards for social and environmental wellness, and the US taking the best talent from around the world, providing them with the best colleges, research facilities, financing etc., and putting at their disposal the resources and markets of the world resulting in a period of unprecedented technological advancements. I make a point to be aware of and appreciate that which each part of the world has contributed. In the end, what we have is not isolated civilizations, but a common history of humanity. 1 0 Reply − L Lothar Schindler a year ago Being of German origin, I have had to contend with the after effects of propaganda from both sides of the war era argument and long understood that lying in all its forms is an ever present aspect of culture, political and otherwise. It comes as no surprise to read the author's contention about the origins of western culture. How does the saying go? Most of what we think we know is wrong. You're confirming what I have long suspected. Thanks. 1 0 Reply − Avatar Bhaskar a year ago Mean while Indians and Chinese who actually have unbroken history and civilization and provided necessary ingredients for Abrahamic cultures are sitting back and watching this civilization fight between different Abrahamic groups. 3 3 Reply − V Vidya dara Bhaskar a year ago No use saying anything to these white supremacists. As their civilization failing they will try to bring down everyone with them. 2 4 Reply − T Timothy Morrow Vidya dara a year ago You dont like someone and you call them "white supremacist"...ad hominem attack ad infinitum.... 2 1 Reply − V Vidya dara Timothy Morrow a year ago Thats coming from people who do that to indians 24 hours using their media to govt agencies. 1 0 Reply − Y You are what you are a year ago The Greeks and Romans were nothing like the norm found in the West today or in Eastern Europe. The values, concepts of morality, reasons for charities, hospices, etc. all come from Christianity. This is a reality that goes against the grain of modern culture. Europe did gain a lot of input from many cultures as well as from its own cultures until it finally took the lead where most came from its own advances. However, the homogeneity of culture in the West is not found in the East and this is due to Christianity. Chinese, Koreans, Japanese, etc. are like chalk and cheese and are far more different from each other than Poles and Spaniards and British. 2 3 Reply − Avatar Nicholas James You are what you are a year ago You make the liberal error of judging ancient civilizations by modern values. NO civilisation in the past could pass this test. 1 0 Reply − V Vidya dara You are what you are a year ago What a load of crap, greeks werent even considered white people before the EU union. Infact ancient greeks considered the rest of europeans as savages. The koreans, chinese, Japanese, Indians etc have far more cultural similarity than europeans have with one another. They could maintain their ancient culture for thousands of years unlike europeans who kept on changing their culture. 3 3 Reply − Avatar Nicholas James Vidya dara a year ago Not true. The ancient Greeks and Romans intermixed their cultures and their genes for centuries. 2 1 Reply − Avatar Kevlaur a year ago Pure drivel. If anything, this article further proves what this woke “scholar” failed to disprove. Western Civilization was/is primarily influenced by the Greeks and Romans. 1 1 Reply − Avatar Work4peace a year ago The Romans were not the founders of law or government or humanism. But you can credit them for providing the genesis for western narcissism, sociopathic, psychopathic, pathologic and parasitic cultural behavior. Thousands of years before the barbaric savages - Greeks and Romans - it was the ancient African Egyptians who had the first governmental system comprised of nomes (states). First system of law called Maat - truth, justice, order and balance. The invaders - Greeks and Romans - stole everything from the ancient Egyptians by plagiarizing their systems: education, government, astrology, spirituality and building. The Western world is a very bad copy of the original ancient African Egyptians who didn't have a standing army, poverty or religion to control the people. These ancient black Africans ruled the world through righteousness which the Europeans and Asians have proven to be incapable of. 1 1 Reply − I Ignacio Broussard a year ago Pure Revisionism to say that the "myth" of western civilization as we understand it was used to justify enslavement is just that, revisionism. They were men who fell prey to horrible prejudiced biases of the time and were prime examples of cognitive dissonance but it doesn't delegitamize the basis of their radical ideas. Finally whether we believe in term Western Civilization's origins is inconsequential at this point as such a term and it's eastern counterpart are the currency on which the Earth is currently built. 1 1 Reply − Avatar john cummins a year ago That was goofy. 1 1 Reply − M Monty Johnston a year ago Whatever, by a hundred years ago Europe had essentially conquered the world. 1 1 Reply − V Vidya dara Monty Johnston a year ago More like they are in endless war with the world. 1 1 Reply − M Monty Johnston Vidya dara a year ago It's both/and. The majority now want democratic freedom, fairness, and equality for all. Not that a large minority of white people aren't having a vicious nervous breakdown over losing their tribalist racist past to the world's necessarily-spreading diversity. It will be ok, team, once we get diverse - Europe's not our only roadblock, given how deep tribalism goes - but getting there's not easy. 0 1 Reply − P Pepe1 a year ago We're all from Africa at some point. 2 9 Reply − Avatar Lance Robert Hough Pepe1 a year ago Actually that is a political determination. 3 1 Reply − E ebird a year ago Maybe the answer lies in not teaching Western Civilization, but World Civilization. That is what I teach at our little community college. As a former Latin teacher, I started out teaching Roman history and Western Civ. World Civ. is much closer to reality. It is taught over two semesters and attempts to weave together East and West with the New World. At best it is a whirl-wind survey course. At the worst, I am forced to leave out topics. That civilization began somewhere other than the Greek and Roman Mediterranean is my goal. My biggest unit is the rise of Islam followed by China. Even with the increased focus upon these areas that are neglected in Western Civ., our text author devotes 9 chapters out of World Civ. I on Europe, Roman and Greek Civilizations. It is up to the instructor to direct the course as he/she sees it. 0 0 Reply − Avatar Reda Rouabhia a year ago The author offered that she might write a book surrounding the thoughts in this article, by doing so she will be perhaps the leading contender to tackle what is dividing the country today and what are the solutions for a happy united states of America. 0 0 Reply − H Hastings a year ago Why do so many, even those with a great deal of education, use literally when they mean figuratively? ARRGH! I know that languages change over time but this is just sloppy. I recently watched a TV reporter in Philadelphia say that "Ben Franklin must be literally rolling over in his grave". I had a vision of a dark tomb with bunch of bones spinning like a roulette wheel. 0 0 Reply − D Drgn a year ago I absolutely appreciate this discussion taking place, as with most history the truth is always a vast amount of intersections which are not simple. I am Irish but am I white? My family are black Irish ( Iberian penninsula culture who came to ireland in "prehistory" as history doesn't always include oral history). There were Furbolgs there before us and more of our, by that time, distant relatives followed and were, in turn followed by the celts. Far removed yet Gaelic still exists and is a spanish language and I still practice my ancestral faith. Anglo-Saxons are also called British but Angles, Saxons, Britons, Welsh, Picts and much more are rolled into one group now. As we go back in time peoples views on who was or was not related and how gets incredibly diverse and complicated. These uniform looking ancient religions reveal their own sects and sometimes deep divisions once their history is known. Reducing any history to skin colors and empires becomes problematic. Language, music and visual artistic styles along with mathematics and engineering in this world going back through time show us that we have many distinct groups and also many collaborations which form complex systems which can be difficult to understand individually. Trying to untangle the threads of history is like trying to view every side of an object you are holding at once. There are too many tales in this world to condense accurately in my humble opinion. 0 0 Reply − Avatar jrmott2@gmail.com a year ago The author is simply parroting the post-modern myth of Western Civilization. 0 1 Reply − Avatar Garrett Harris a year ago The thread is clearly Greek humanism in the guise of Christianity. 0 1 Reply − Avatar Mark Hamilton a year ago Too many people is glorified by religion and war economics. Earth's geologic history indicates it will kill all 8 billion of the colonization. Whimsy, which is human will be dashed for an eternal good. 0 1 Reply − Avatar Abandon Islam Mark Hamilton a year ago This is so irrelevant, it's like introducing a banana into a conversation about mustard. 1 2 Reply − Avatar Mark Hamilton Abandon Islam a year ago You're irrelevant. Your vote, your gun, your family doesn't matter in the big pic. My denial of your existence is obligatory. Genocide is my genome. My leader might direct me toward you. See ya 0 0 Reply − Avatar Mark Hamilton Abandon Islam a year ago My genes killed neanderthal. Reason presumes you're next. 0 1 Reply − Avatar Abandon Islam Mark Hamilton a year ago I just farted in your general direction 0 0 Reply − Avatar Nicholas James a year ago As with all apologist neo- liberal academics who try to rewrite history, and who put ancient actions like slavery in the context of modern values, your saying that " it is wrong" does not make it so. ANY great civilisation gains strength by being cosmopolitan...they all did. Debunking your own race does not take away from the fact that Western Civilisation IS predominantly white, whether you like it or not. Stop apologising for being successful, it's nauseating. 0 1 Reply − Avatar Dreddog a year ago edited Excellent thread NAOÍSE MAC SWEENEY! Greek philosophy and the Roman religious evolution is the main foundation of the so-called Western style civilization. The Roman evolution from pagan-based religion to hijacking the Christian religion is factual and historical. The Romans hoped to hold their empire together by using the Christian religion. Unfortunately Rome was sacked by their outsourced military. As they refused the Huns citizenship, They took their revenge. The Roman Nicene council brand of Christian Religion is the commonality to all sorts of un-Christ like dogma that was added later on after the death of Christ and the apostles. This gave rise to endless conflict, the crusades, the constant plundering of the Arab world by white Christian led militaries. And, just as a side note, read Rudyard Kipling's "The White Man's Burden," it's very enlightening to the thought process of white Western civilization! 0 1 Reply − Avatar Mike a year ago When you Realize what " Manifest Destiny " was really about then you can clearly see that Western Civilization is and has been the Greatest Homicidal Slaughter of the Innocent . From Columbus on , tens of millions will be Murdered intentionally to steal their land . Then attacked a Peaceful Mexico and again millions were killed for their land . Did not stop there , on to Hawaii, again the Native Hawaiians were ruthlessly Butched for their land ...... , " Western Civilization has and always been the War Mongering People that have brought nothing but Death to where ever they have Stepped . Today the Lies and Deceit, the Smoke and Mirror Lies have come out and it's Time to call Out the Western Civilization for what it is and has been , the Greatest Threat to Mankind... ! 0 1 Reply − J Jeremy Carnes a year ago What a fascinating exercise in proctomancy. 0 1 Reply − J Jamie a year ago You take a few thousand words to essentially argue that because the West did not come from a common racial or national point of origin, it essentially doesn't exist. The West was, and always has been, a work in progress - a refinement of civilization defined by a willingness to take what is best from culture and ideas and discard everything else. As for the rest of your screed, it's a mawkish reworking of the "West in bad" PC narrative dressed up with academic language and smug condescension for us "know nothings." But by all means, keep smashing at the center until it cannot hold. Only when the embers of what remains flicker in civilization's midnight will you recognize what you helped destroy. 0 1 Reply − AT Alexander the great. a year ago This is simply not true, and is pure propaganda, anyone knowing history knows that everything that you say is a lie. 0 2 Reply − Avatar Reda Rouabhia a year ago This article truly unearthed what separated our country, I wish the author would detail her wise idea 0 2 Reply − T Tony Gatto Reda Rouabhia a year ago On how the Muslims would conquer a nation and then magically have a golden age, this has happened many of times, also mathematics and genetics don't lie unlike liberals commy child groomers